Mystery vehicles (1941)

All

Attached are photographs (and a crude plan and side view) of one of two vehicles to found in one of the holds of the wreck of SS Thislegorm - a British freighter lying in 30m of water in the Red Sea. Sunk in 1941, the wreck is still full of Bedford trucks, BSA motor cycles - and aircraft parts (Bristol Mercury engine parts, Blenheim bomber tail planes and engine exhaust rings, and Westland Lysander wings). Having recently identified the aircraft parts and written an article published in the Diver magazine, a reader wrote to me asked if I could also identify the "mystery vehicles". Thus far, I have drawn a blank. The interior of the vehicles contains some electrical equipment (see photograph) with what look like coils and a dial.

In terms of size, the vehicles are about as big as a Hummer. They seem to be armoured - and appear to my untrained eyes be quite crudely made.

More pictures of the Thistlegorm and these vehicles can befound on my website:

http://www.schweboo.com/html/ss_thistlegorm.html

Click on the shell casing to get to a slide show. I have tried the Bovington tank museum and RAF Hendon - they are as baffled as I am and would also like to know what they are! Any ideas most welcome.

Best regards

Chris

Mystery vehicle.bmp

Hi schweboo..

welcome to the forum, maybe you could tell us a bit about yourself & vehicle in the Introductions & Welcome section

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/forumdisplay.php?f=13

Cheers

Lee

Hi Schweboo

These pics were posted just before the big forum crash,..........caption normally given to the left hand pic, is that of Armoured cars,.but the thoughts of those on here seemed to lean towards a piece of towed equipment;

Certainly there were trucks on board, and of those remaining, I understand the roofs have been cut for divers to salvage the steering wheels,..........:???

Great Pic's on your site.

Cheers for the link.

All the best,

Andy

Andy

Thanks for your response. The Blenheim tail planes on the Thistlegorm had been wrongly identified as "Spitfire wings" in the past. I have looked at a lot of pictures of armoured cars and have found not that look anything like these two vehicles. They both seem to have a winch like object at the rear - perhaps they were towed...but for what purpose?

The guys at Bovingdon did not think that they are armoured cars - at least not a model that they recognised.

One suggestion is that the electrical stuff could be part of some arc welding equipment - but the vehicles seem too big and too well protected to be something like that...

Best regards

Chris

Wasn't the opinion here that it was airfield lighting equipment ?

Lots of (the majority ?) of the motorcycles are actually Norton 16Hs. If anyone's diving there again, could they have a look at the engine numbers for me ?

Cheers !

Rich

Wasn't the opinion here that it was airfield lighting equipment ?

 

 

It was identified as a trailer mounted Chance light, as you say

There were 2 very similar trailers in RAF and RN airfield service, both carried a generator set, switchgear and light units; one was a "Chance light" which was a area illumination light, the other we called a PUNDIT, from the right hand picture I would say this is a PUNDIT. The coils and dial are part of a mechanism which flashes 3 letters in morse code. The letters are the I.D. code of the airfield. Once deployed the ID code was set on the control panel and when required ground staff would start up the gene and then activate the beacon in accordance to the instructions of ATC or flying control. With both the CHANCE & the PUNDIT during WW 2 there were variations in the exact shape and dimension. Both could be trailer or vehicle mounted.

The last PUNDIT mobile unit I worked on was on a 1 ton single axle Brockhouse trailer with a gen set powered by a 4 cyl horizontally opposed Coventry Victor engine. Most of the WW2 variants had Ford V8 engines.

Forgive me if this has already been dealt with but in the 'photo captioned "Blenheim bomber engine cowling", just to the right of the cowling, the vehicle facing the camera appears to be a Karrier K6.

Forgive me if this has already been dealt with but in the 'photo captioned "Blenheim bomber engine cowling", just to the left of the cowling, the vehicle facing the camera appears to be a Karrier K6.

Hi 6x6..

welcome to the forum, maybe you could tell us a bit about yourself & vehicle in the Introductions & Welcome section

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/forumdisplay.php?f=13

Cheers

Lee

Attached is the PUNDIT at RAF Halfpenny Green. I think it can be seen it matches the underwater picture. In the previous picture I posted showing both types of trailer, the CHANCE light on the left has been illuminated for the benefit of an incoming aircraft. They were named CHANCE lights after the Lense manufacturer.

Try Again the PUNDIT ident beacon at RAF Halfpenny Green. !"!

If at first you don't succeed !!!!!!!

All

 

a reader wrote to me asked if I could also identify the "mystery vehicles". Thus far, I have drawn a blank.

http://www.schweboo.com/html/ss_thistlegorm.html

 

 

Chris,

Looking at Steve Cain's photos on your website, the lorries labelled as Bedfords, are in fact Ford WOT3 30 cwt trucks, there is also a 6x4 3 ton truck, which looks to be a Leyland Retriever Breakdown Gantry, going by remains of iron work on the body, Next to it is a Crossley 4x4. There is an open cabbed truck with a spare wheel on the side of the cab, this looks like a Morris Commercial.

Richard

If at first you don't succeed !!!!!!!

I am totally convinced - the picture is exactly what I saw on the Thistlegorm - except that the tower on top of the trailor has been taken off so that it will fit in the hold. I wonder of the "trailer" shown in my sketch attached to my email is actuallly the tower, dismantled and stored on the back of the trailor during transit

The internet is a very powerful tool! Many thanks

Best regards

Chris

It was identified as a trailer mounted Chance light, as you say

Thanks, Richard;.............that was what I was trying to think of.

Richard

Many thanks for your comments on the identification of the land vehicles. I am not surprised that there are identrification errors, many of which have been repeated over the last decade.

I will add some explanatory text onto my website - which is now used by some of the dive centres in Sharm el Sheikh. At least some of divers on the Thistlegorm will then have a better idea of what they are looking at....

Best regards

Chris